Fund a builder-first legal activism dao

I strongly support this proposal. I believe it’s the best way to align the necessary legal work required at this stage of Curve’s and DeFi’s development with the goals and values of our community (transparency, fairness, inclusivity, etc.).

While the focus may seem US-centric, the USA will be the most aggressive in going after Curve and other projects regardless of where they or core contributors are domiciled, as US regulators view their reach as global. Other countries will likely look at how the US regulates crypto when formulating their own laws. It’s critical we fight back, and LeXpunK Army and methodology is in my opinion the way most consistent with our community beliefs.

We should also lobby other top projects to follow suit. This is going to be a long and continually evolving process, we can only win if we unite and pool resources, stay focused and vigilant.

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We honestly have no interest in pursuing partnership with tradfi institutions or banks. They are welcome to use Curve, on the exact same basis that everyone else is.
Large protocols cozying up to institutions is a slippery slope, we’re here to replace them, not cozy up to them.

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This is excellent. Full support from me.

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yes, there are plenty of projects pursuing TradFi integrations; we want to focus on the builders obsessed with keeping DeFi punk

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As a hedge fund that owns a significant amount of CRV, we definitely support this proposal. I would suggest putting together a list of attorneys in DC that you believe would have the greatest impact. I would contact https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakechervinsky to see if he knows someone that could be the lead counsel for Curve and work with him on lobbying effectively in DC.

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Does LeXpunk_DAO currently have a group of lawyers in mind? I assume the proposal authors have a legal background, but not exactly clear on that. Will there be some kind of vetting process to add and remove legal representatives, or are these kind of bounties that anyone can contribute to?

Do the DAO members have any priorities for what might be the most urgent campaigns? I’m under the impression from previous discussions on the forum that Curve is limited in its ability to take legal action, and also vulnerable, by its not having any legal status. Specifically a status that limits the liability of DAO members. Is this an important consideration to LeXpunk_DAO, and if so, would it be capable of helping move Curve toward some level of compliance in the eyes of regulators?

I find this whole concept of a legal DAO fascinating, and interested to see where it goes. Thanks for bringing this proposal to us!

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The DAO is composed of many different types of people from various backgrounds (builders, crypto degens, lawyers), but most are lawyers who are active in crypto, and want to find a way to support crypto projects while respecting crypto values (transparency, accountability, fairness, etc.). You can read more about them on their site: LeXpunK Recruits: DAO1

Their approach will be very targeted, so we can clearly understand and approve the specific engagement, likely costs, goals, etc., to ensure proper accountability. Money will be tied to performance.

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Great questions.

The biggest LeXpunK telegram group currently has 92 curated members, many of whom are excellent lawyers with long traditional legal careers prior to their involvement in crypto. We plan to source work from this community as much as possible, but in certain cases we might recruit attorneys or law firms for a specific project where their expertise is needed, even if they are not really embedded in the community.

We will be setting up a LeXpunK administrative entity (separate from the DAO) that can do boring things like pay people with proper tax reporting and, in a pinch, could be able to serve as an API between LeXpunK member DAOs and the traditional legal system.

Additionally, we have been actively discussing alternative entity models for DAO builder teams that could help them do this independently; creating a scalable model for this might be one of the first LeXpunK_DAO campaigns.

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Given that other projects are also contributing, could you start with something more modest like $250K and see whether this team actually makes an impact? I’d only support more if the strategy took into account global initiatives into DeFi regulations.

I respect all the participants on an individual basis but this still looks like opportunism to respond to local irritants like US tax law and US congressional log-jams. The proposal doesn’t mention a single non-US regulatory body. It needs to be much more ambitious, outward-facing and equitable. Where are the LATAM representatives? Who’s representing APAC and EMEA?

Curve has value largely due to its global investors. The treasury has value because investors and traders around the world participate in the pools and stake CRV.

I simply don’t agree with the idea that US law will define global regulation for crypto. The world has moved on in a big way. For example, the FATF didn’t sit around while the US sat on its hands for 4 years. Where is the FATF, you may ask? Here:

2, rue André Pascal
75775 Paris Cedex 16 FRANCE

That’s Paris, in France.

Want better bang for your buck? Who’s our guy/gal knocking on the door of the FATF President and the representatives from the other FATF member coutries? And what proposal are they taking with them?

I also have serious reservations with the partisan approach to this initiative. Singling out Senator Warren is uncalled for. Even if I look at the depressing regulatory situation for DeFi in the US, there are signs of hope. For example, there are many shared values between progressives like Elizabeth Warren and the DeFi industry that can/should be explored here:

  • Want greater transparency and auditability of financial products? Tick.
  • How about equitable access to finance generally? Tick.
  • Low cost banking? Tick.
  • Accelerate the distribution of stimulus and social security payments? Tick.
  • Fairer distribution of investment returns? Tick.
  • Recuced impact from rent-seeking intermediaries, exploitation and bail-outs? Tick, Tick, Tick.

Senator Warren might be approaching this a different way for different goals with a different constituency (who are, let’s not forget, potential customers and investors in Curve) so this group would be better served having a sound bi-partisan foundation with bona fide, card carrying progressives and liberals engaged in the messaging and strategy (which doesn’t appear to be the case here). Without that, I predict the legal DAO having minimal impact on the US regulatory environment and zero impact outside the US.

Simply put - no partisan projects please. There are Super PACs for that.

I know there’s a bunch of Ripple-haters here but there’s a lot to learn from their approach. Say what you like, but they went about it the right way. They reached out to banks and payment providers to understand their pain points and used those relationships to gain access to key decision-makers. They fought their way into every major regulator’s office. They got seats at the table where ISO standards and internet payment protocols are being defined. It’s slow, dirty work that actually makes a difference because it is aimed at building consensus.

DeFi is all about consensus and we need support across the financial industry sector. Yet the language in the proposal is about “campaigns” and “raids”.

Where’s the stealth and slow grind required to pull this off for DeFi? Who’s our industry body? Where are our documented standards? Why isn’t there stronger outreach with regulators, standards bodies and industry groups who actually make a difference? Who’s thinking about the precariously exposed developers and project teams with their arses hanging in the breeze?

If the proposal was instead something like “We’re going to set up a simple industry group representing the interests of DeFi globally. We’ll reach out to all major platforms for members and funding (that includes folks building on Polkadot, BSC, AVAX, Flare/Ripplenet etc etc). We’ll build a set of DeFi industry standards and legislative models and push them in front of decision makers at the FATF, industry bodies, EU Commission and G9…”, I’d probably reply “shut up and take my money”.

I predict that if we take that approach, instead of this group begging for attention and responding reactively to threats, our door will be the one everyone will be rushing towards.

DeFi is at a critical juncture. We, as an industry, need to coordinate. I agree that the industry needs a “fighting fund” but not in the absence of a body that reflects shared strategic business, rather than legal, objectives.

That’s my counter-proposal.

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Have you spoken with the team at Otonomos? I think they are quite advanced on that topic, there might be some synergies there.

While I very much enjoyed the tone of your proposal and support it, I tend agree with @Daimon that a more nuanced approach might be more constructive in reaching our goals.

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Hi Daimon - Thank you so much for your thoughtful feedback.

Let me give some initial thoughts and then I can come back around with more comprehensive responses (and you can also message me further, I am happy to take further suggestions).

To a couple of the points – to clarify, this is not a blank check. We are not drawing on the funds all at once, this is important for accountability and that we are fulfilling needs. Further, the deliberative process, prioritization of efforts and costs of each project are collaboratively sourced with the communities.

On the point about global reach - this point is well taken and we have fielded (and are responding to) similar feedback (see Army of Crypto Lawyers Propose New ‘Builder-First’ DeFi DAO - Decrypt "beyond these [initial] initiatives, the organization is “already hearing strong feedback about the need to broaden our scope to include in our purview regulations on a global scale so we anticipate having specific working groups focused on the EU and other extra-jurisdictional issues”). We have already started focusing on recruiting non-US army members to build out our capabilities and knowledge base.

100% agree that this is not a partisan project nor do we have a partisan approach (frankly, the politics are incredibly mixed). Your points are well taken, there is a need to educate, shape sensible counterpoints etc. The Warren callout was a function of the timing of the initial proposal (we thought the questions posed would present a timely educational opportunity so used it as an example/case in point – the curveball being Gensler never publicly responded and we have had a snowball of intervening events such as the infra bill, Beyer bill, etc).

To this point: “DeFi is all about consensus and we need support across the financial industry sector. Yet the language in the proposal is about “campaigns” and “raids”.” We agree, we are building a broad, passionate and motivated community. Consensus building is happening right now and there are significant efforts outside of the scope of a “funded” vs. not analysis. We will pursue all viable avenues here – traditional means of advancing political efforts, putting out policy positions, educational campaigns, etc.

To this point " If the proposal was instead something like “We’re going to set up a simple industry group representing the interests of DeFi globally. We’ll reach out to all major platforms for members and funding (that includes folks building on Polkadot, BSC, AVAX, Flare/Ripplenet etc etc). We’ll build a set of DeFi industry standards and legislative models and push them in front of decision makers at the FATF, industry bodies, EU Commission and G9…”, I’d probably reply “shut up and take my money”." We have already had shared efforts with more bridge building in process and we are fielding many requests for general contributions/donations to work on public goods. This is a major passion of ours and we are already working on best practice primers, forms/model language for the space in our GitHub – these efforts are taking shape to be part of a broader LeXpunk DAO (I keep calling ShaDAO, no one is biting) while the activism DAO is attempting to be leaner/narrower to respond to the specific community needs/priorities…

Again, these are some quick responses – things are moving and evolving quickly, our goal is to be agile and responsive. Please continue to give feedback and share concerns, it is very helpful to us and ensuring alignment.

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Thanks @SH_Brennan for the considered reply.

The OP was a request for money. Since there is no specific project/task being funded and it’s not clear who the stakeholders are, $250K seems generous taking into account that this proposal is being funded by multiple platforms. I know that won’t fund a legal defence for a securities lawsuit but I’m not sure this type of fund is suitable for litigation beyond a handful of amicus briefs anyway.

If this is a pitch to the Curve community, it needs to sell the value prop. Which then begs the question: why is Curve funding a DAO where the ROI is negligible? Curve isn’t facing an avalanche of securities law issues. Its exposure is about the same as every other DeFi platform. If Curve was ever singled out by the SEC, this legal fund won’t scratch the surface of the eventual legal defence budget.

So let’s go back to first princples so I can think through the implications.

My clients come first. They decide what’s important. In this case, the community and investors are the client. It’s their money. They need to drive the initiative and direct the focus with our help. Hence my call for a community driven and funded DeFi Industry Group that covers multiple platforms and would allow for proper membership and cross-jurisdictional support. You want to build it on a DAO? Sure, we can do that. But at least we’ll have the right stakeholders engaged to manage the objectives and outcomes. And it’s a very safe bet that the first thing on their mind won’t be funding amicus briefs by securities lawyers in the US.

Maybe that’s one of the missing pieces here - did this proposal come out of a conversation with clients to understand what their main concerns are? Going through the campaigns more closely, I don’t see alignment with the needs of any of my DeFi clients:

  • a landmark position paper advocating for positive analysis under securities law, commodities law or tax law of Curve-relevant DeFi primitives such as AMMs and staking-for-fees-and-governance. - US Securities law
  • a legal defense of DeFi developers against regulatory litigation; - US Securities law
  • proposed ‘safe harbor’ legislation legalizing key aspects of DeFi; - US Securities law
  • if/when the SEC files a case premised on a novel, expansive view of securities laws that could adversely affect DeFi builders (for example, that all project participants are collectively responsible as an ‘unincorporated association ’); the LeXpunK_DAO would file an amicus curiae brief in the litigation - US Securities law

Maybe this stuff is exciting for securities and litigation specialists but we need to open this up to a broader set of concerns and deeper strategic goals. I was really surprised to see not a single strategy covering IP - even though my recent foray into the Rarible licence uncovered a swathe of issues for NFTs. Not one word on industry protections for devs, many of whom are deeply exposed on a personal liability level. No advisory group. No global response to deal with the FATF on the VASP requirements or a response to the EU Commission on MiCA.

The proposal seems developed by securities lawyers who will fund costly campaigns by other securities lawyers.

We are not going to convince Congress or the SEC to upend 75 years of precedent overnight. And while pushing for change is a fantastic goal, the legal DAO won’t be the one to do it because it not driven by the industry itself. We all watched Chairman Gensler’s speech and can see the writing on the wall for a lot of projects who don’t have their house in order. Chairman Gensler thinks the regulatory clarity is there. I tend to agree. However there was a number of other thinly veiled messages in the Aspen speech that went unremarked and point to a way forward. These messages are based on the sound public policy grounds for the Securities Act and the SEC’s recent stance towards ICOs (with governance tokens coming next).

If we’re providing sound advice to our clients, it needs to consider the public policy behind the laws, anticipating what that path forward might look like and providing options to be explored. Gensler offered an olive branch when he said: “Come and speak to us at the SEC about your project”. I know this doesn’t look like one of your campaigns but it will need to occur soon - it’s about agreeing, as an industry, how best to approach this in a collective fashion and sit down with the SEC as a collective voice. “Unity”, as the old union saying goes, “is strength.”

The industry group needs to be the DeFi equivalent of FATF, SWIFT or ISO. That would allow for economies of scale, more reasonable and predictable membership fees, clear objectives and goals and sufficient clout to make regulators and politicicans take notice. It’s significantly more ambitious than what is being proposed by the OP but will get the right legal outcome for the industry. We should be aiming for self-regulation just like other giants of the financial services sector. We need to incentivise good operators and show the public we can deal with rogues.

We’re well past the stage of cottage industry and hobbyists and need to fund organisations that reflect that reach.

I’m a technology lawyer and have to deal with a wider range of problems. After my clients receive their obligatory “we don’t know, maybe, probably” legal advice on US Securities law (which is promptly shelved), the next thing they want to know is how to set up the business correctly and get operational.

Looking past the not-terribly-exciting securities law issues, my clients also want to be forewarned on more pressing regulatory and practical legal issues that affect their operations - including things like obtaining insurance, the likely impact of VASP requirements, raising capital, creating decentralised markets for commodities and property, NFT licensing, money transfer business laws, the travel rule, KYC, AML, privacy, contracts of various sorts etc etc. They’re targeting 3-4 large markets and need to understand the pitfalls in each jurisdiction. They want to get out in front of this stuff and they’re not waiting for a green light from the SEC for the simple reason that it will never come and you can’t run a business looking over your shoulder. Anyone who’s had experience in-house would know that.

None of the above topics are listed campaigns. It’s as if we’re re-hashing 2017 all over again. Believe it or not, a lot of us have moved on and if the SEC comes knocking, we’ll leave plenty of soft toys for them to chew on while we get on with business - just like every large enterprise does everywhere in the world. Where’s the strategy around that?

Want to make real change? Let’s start by getting DeFi employing more people - lots of them. Let’s make this industry exciting to work in. Let’s find ways to engage folks who would never touch crypto. There’s a dire need for support and we know people across the board are out of work. This is the future of finance - for people of all walks of life, around the world.

DeFi needs more than just PhD grads and securities lawyers. It needs accountants and sales staff. HR and marketing. We need payroll and purchasing. There’s a reason tobacco and big pharma and big oil and defence companies and banks survive and it’s not just money. It’s their people. These industries employ thousands of workers across the world. That is how they are normalised when there are plenty of reasons for them to be marginalised.

Lawyers should aspire to becoming trusted advisors to their clients. That often means using smart, retail politics and prudent business practice. A bit more of that would go a long way here and save a lot of time and money.

“Seeing such a huge lump-sum donation to a small group of lawyers out of a DAO, and how quickly it was approved, opened our eyes to the urgency of ensuring that diverse DAOs and builder teams have a voice in cryptolaw debates,” they said.

I bet it opened some eyes. But I don’t know if the solution to a small group of lawyers with a big bag of money is a big group of lawyers with a smaller bag of money. :innocent:

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Vote is up: Snapshot

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I strongly agree with this suggestion, which is of great significance to the development direction of DAO’s legalization. But specifically, there’s still a long way to go in terms of how regulators enforce legality, and I’m glad we’re taking the first step.

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Oh well - can’t beat them so might as well join them. :sweat_smile:

Where do I sign up?

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Rather than $1M into anti-regulatory shouting match, how abut $1M into looking to promote self-regulation or co-regulation?

By establishing voluntary standards of transparent governance (which circle does) or willingness to out bad actors (big fail here with 2017 ICOnu) DeFi can demonstrate willingness to act as global adult and not rebellious cowboys (with allowance for competitive behaviour for entrenched incumbent rent-seekers).

Suggestions to get the legal positivism going (sandbox type legislation so that small purpose-driven DAOs don’t get tarred with same brush as commercial operators)

  1. in-DAO alpha testing < 20 parties (use soft loan/stake + reversible transactions) … eg Swiss 1 million CHF innovation license
  2. cross-border testing < 100 parties cap say $1M real money equiv tokens eg or Aust. sandbox 100@$10keach
  3. go semi-public after getting license & travel passport + paperwork (PITA)

so a mutual non-interference and gradual integrtion with the mainnet to avoid Poly-network type attacks.

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100%

Establishing standards is one part of my proposal for a global industry group. DeFi needs to establish a pro-active response to regulation.

One of my biggest concerns is that DeFi moves in the wrong circles of power. If we want legislators around the world to make sound regulatory decisions, they can only do that to the extent we are engaging with the relevant government departments and industry bodies that formulate policy and related laws.

A lot of folks seem to think individual legislators make up these rules and draft the legislation too - as if! They get their guidance from policy wonks in the public service and lobbyists, not twitter. The legislators are just one of the cogs in the in the machinery of law.

We all know there is an intellectual vacuum within the public sector in relation to crypto. In the EU they went this way: Have your say

They sought industry and public response which resulted in a strong turn-out: Have your say

One of the respondents was www.fmlc.org (I’m not affiliated at all) - this group includes a number of law firms specialising in crypto such as Linklaters and Norton Rose as well as jurists and researchers in the field. Check their mission statement: About the FMLC – Financial Markets Law Committee

Another organisation who responded was ANNA (Association of National Numbering Agencies). And the International Capital Market Association did as well. DeFi needs the functional analogue of these bodies.

Those folks are miles ahead in their engagement with legislators, are responding strategically and making an impact. If there is an interest in doing this via a DAO, I really don’t care because I’m all about results. But this needs a bigger picture approach to legal activism with clear objectives and mission statements, openness to working with legislators, ongoing funding via membership fees and cross-platform support.

Where might standards be useful? I nominate 3 areas

  1. Stablecoins + Basel 1.5 … love or hateit, CBDC like chinese DCEP are coming and the US Treasury will either co-op private stable coins or else tax them to negative profit by requireing 100% fiat backing. To pre-empt such a move, I suggest relooking at stablecoins through lens of Basel, that you have CBDC at tier 1A, then ranking credit instruments from pegged, to dirty float to algo-coins to overcollateralised to basically wishful thinking (cough Tether). In return for co-regulation, then the on-off-ramps to fiat needs to be relaxed, so long as provide KYC/AML no worse than existing neo-banks, you should be able to interchange with existing banking system to enable more participation for real goods/services and less speculation. This is a step towards legitimacy

  2. Classification of tokens (bottom left) … in particular what is a commodity to get away from a capital gain event for every security/property transaction. This is needed for AMMs since it would be nicer to set up liquidity pools for tokens of similar properties. By putting tokens within the existing financial ontological framework, you can then try and get a single passported regulator to keep eye instead of the current cluster-fsck where every country wants jurisdiction and DeFi ends up in the grey-zone

  3. Nominate emerging practices where innovation can happen in sandboxes (mutual non-interference) but a pathway to getting onto mainnet and global acceptance by doing basic stuff like product disclosure statements … if it is a speculative investment, then be honest about it. Without establishing grounds for trust, then DeFi will be mentally classed as shadowy banking for terrorist kiddie-port crypto-anarchists which tars the valid use cases.

I note Curve is opening up community grants … anyone interested in putting heads together to identity what areas are worthwhile coming to framework standards consensus to reduce regulatory friction?

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Hi All - Below is the first slate of proposed projects for the LeXpunK Builder Defense DAO.

We are submitting these to the community with a signaling poll for feedback and welcome your thoughts, which can be posted here or on an ongoing basis in the LeXpunK forum, on additional pursuits and considerations as we pursue the initial slate of projects below. Each project will be fleshed out with additional qualitative criteria and specifications when the working group applications process is announced.

As you can see below, most projects have a budget range. The Multisig will decide the amount of actual payment to be allocated to each project based on the actual work product produced and we will be utilizing Coordinape to pay the bounties to those who worked on the projects.

Proposed Spend on Contributed Funds - Tranche 1 (start of Q4 2021 - end of Q1-2022)

- Operations | $150k (fund coordinator pay ($3k per project) & misc. expenses)

- DAO Structure & Risk Mitigation Bounties:
o Build DAO Coop / Labor Union Model | $15k min, up to $150k
o Model Foundation / DAO back-to-back docs / structure | $15k min, up to $100k
o Limited liability for DAOs, forking California nonprofit unincorporated association statute | $20k min, up to $100k
o DAO tax safe harbor (cross-category) - proposal to establish a safe harbor for smart contract systems that if they pay a ‘greater of’ %-based or flat tax, they will fit into safe harbor for certain tax-related risks
o Guidance paper regarding DAO legal claim standing, attorney client privilege issues, and proposed model structures and parameters for proper DAO legal defense funding | $25k min, up to $60k

- Model Legislation/Regulation Bounties:
o Section 409A amendment to improve tax treatment of vesting token awards + fork of yearn vesting contract that complements the amendment proposal | $25k min, up to $50k (legal) ; $50k flat (smart contract)
o Fork of Hester Peirce Safe Harbor (address lack of smart contract coverage & other issues) | $20k min, up to $100k
o Amendments to Beyer Crypto Bill (carve-out algo stablecoins, improve desecuritization process, better - clarity on not covering DeFi) | $10k min, up to $50k
o DAO tax safe harbor (cross-category) - proposal to establish a safe harbor for smart contract systems (i.e., if pay a “greater of” %-based or flat tax, a safe harbor for certain tax-related risks will apply)

- Policy/Legal Position Paper Bounties
o Position paper on why DeFi smart contract transactions do not meet definitions of ‘swap’ | $50k min, up to $200k
o Why Worker-Driven DeFi communities are different from VC-backed communities and legal ramifications | $10k
o DeFi Functional Overview (functional overview, review against risk frameworks, discuss implications/application of CEA) | $50k
o Position paper on the MiCA Commission’s proposal, its potential application to DeFi protocols and basis for why its application should be limited in scope and recommendations / modifications of the existent rules to cover risks posed | $30k min, up to $40k
o Workable AML/KYC Compliance Model - compliance for regulated entities at fiat on and off-ramps | $15k

  • Signal Support
  • Signal Opposition

0 voters

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LEXPUNK UPDATE TIME!!
Hi All - Just wanted to drop in and make sure everyone is aware of the LeXpunK work product that is dropping.

As part of our “DAO Structure & Risk Mitigation” efforts, LeXpunK recently pushed out the LeXpunK Legal Defense Protocol v.1

This work product has several integral pieces that we want to highlight as the scope of this effort increased dramatically from what we origially set out to do. Quick reminder that all of the resources we produce are open-source available on the LeXpunK GitHub but links are included below to the Defense Protocol for ease of reference:

  1. The Operator’s Manual. The manual summarizes the legal threat landscape for DAOs/Multisigs and provides within the manual guidance to address these. NOTE: read the disclaimers, we are not your lawyers and you will need your own on this - goal is that you wont have to invent the wheel, that is the objective of the manual - it is a good faith effort at creating the wheel.
  2. LeXpunK Form of DAO Charter - model DAO Charter to allow DAO members to set certain ground rules about the nature of the DAO’s purposes and rules.
  3. LeXpunK Form of DAO/Multisig Joint Defense Agreement - a really important type of agreement that enables persons participating in unincorporated DAOs/Multisigs to obtain the benefits of attorney-client confidentiality and attorney-client privilege when prosecuting or defending claims where they share a mutuality of interest, claims or defenses. Note: This agreement also includes a Joinder Agreement and Non-Disclosure Agrement as exhibits.
  4. LeXpunK Form of Multisig Participation Agreement, which enables Multisig participants to set certain ground rules about the nature of their activities, responsibilities to their communities and responsibilities to one another.
  5. LeXpunK Model Yield Disclaimers for yield-bearing DeFi protocols.

The LeXpunK Legal Defense Protocol is intended to be an evolving open-source community-driven legal risk management toolkit. Accordingly, we are calling this first batch of documents “v. 1.0” but anticipate there is much room for improvement of these forms, as well as adding new tools, as cryptolaw evolves and the LeXpunK Army continues pursuing its mission.

We love feedback - let us know what you think and what you would like to see added to the Protocol next!

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